INTERVIEW WITH M. L.
by Charles Wallach, Ph.D.

CW
I understand that you have been HIV+ for a number of years, and in recent months there has been a remarkable improvement in your health after undergoing a series of experimental magnetic treatments.

ML
Yes, that's right. It's changed my life completely. In fact it has saved my life!

CW
Let's see, for the record you are a gay Caucasian male, 37 years old, 6'4", about 200 pounds, living in West Hollywood. Can you tell me how this all started?

ML
Sure. My leg was injured in a minor auto accident, so I went to this clinic because of the pain. I think that was back in August. They did a routine blood test on me, and found that my T-cell count was 48. That's extremely low, you know. The doctor suggested that I try some treatments on this new magnetic machine they were using on an experimental basis.

CW
Wow! That is a low count. So what happened after that?

ML
Well, I was supposed to go in once a week for these treatments, but when I started feeling pretty good I often skipped a week. But at the end of the first month, my T-cells were up to 100. So I kept going back and the count kept climbing. The next check showed 400, and after a couple of months it was up to 790 and still climbing. And I feel wonderful! It's the first time I felt really good in years. I was down to 160 pounds when they started me on this treatment, and I've gained about 40 pounds just in the last two or three months.

CW
Would you describe the treatments you are receiving?

ML
After I check in at the reception desk, I go back into this little back room where they keep this experimental machine. Most of it is in a box about the size of a small trunk. There's a kind of donut-shaped ring connected to the box by a thick cable. The ring is about ten inches in diameter, and quite heavy. They put the ring over my chest and turn the machine on.

It makes a noise like an angry rattlesnake for about 20 minutes, and that's it!

CW
Where on your chest do they place the ring?

ML
They move it around every few minutes, over my lungs and near my throat because of the thyroid glands, you know, that's where T-cells are made. I don't have to undress or anything; the effect goes right through my clothes, but I do have to remove all metal objects from my pockets, and any metal jewelry. I never wear anything metal around my neck when I go in for treatment.

CW
That's all they do?

ML
Oh, they take my vital signs, you know, blood pressure, pulse, temperature and all that before each treatment, and after about every other treatment they draw some blood for testing. It's really very easy and painless, and what it has done for me is a miracle!

CW
Did they explain to you how this magnetic machine works?

ML
Well, yes, they did tell me something about how it makes sick cells healthy, but I don't really understand it. But you're supposed to be an expert on these things; can you explain it more simply? So I could understand it?

CW
I hope so. I'll try. But I wanted to get your impressions first.

ML
All I know is they put this ring on me, the machine makes a noise for 20 minutes or so, the ring gets a little warm--not really hot--so I know it's doing something, but I don't feel anything during the treatment.

It's just that I feel so much better after the treatment. So what's happening inside me?

CW
Okay. As you have been told, I'm a research scientist who has spent a great deal of time investigating the biological effects of electricity and magnetism. When I heard of this new Magnetic Oscillation Therapy being used on an experimental basis, I became interested and asked to see the system in operation. I was graciously invited to inspect the machine (we call it the "Magnetic Pulse Generator" or MPG, and told about some of the first case histories--including yours.

ML
Have there been many others?

CW
Not yet. This system has only been approved for experimental use until enough experience and data has been gathered to apply for full approval by the Food and Drug Administration. As a result, only a few carefully selected patients have been admitted to the research program. I think you are the only one who has not had an opportunistic infection, but similarly remarkable results have been observed on the few other HIV+ patients they have treated so far. Cases of Kaposi's sarcoma, pneumocystis Carinii and AIDS-related diarrhea have been cleared up in remarkably short time, and in those cases an increase in T-cell count was also noted--along with a significant improvement in general health.

M.L.'s T-Cell count diagram

ML
Yes, I heard a little bit about that at the clinic. But how does it work?

CW
Well, at first glance the MPG appears to have several effects: it kills bacteria, stops the growth of cancer cells, and increases the production of T-cells. But in the final analysis these may be all caused by the same basic mechanism.

ML
What's that?

CW
You see, every living cell has its own tiny electrical system. We can actually measure the voltage of a cell, just like you measure the voltage of a car battery. We call this voltage the transmembrane potential, or TMP for short. This is the voltage between the inner and outer skin, or membrane of the cell. In a normal, healthy cell this is about 60 or 70 hundredths of a volt--60 or 70 millivolts. When a cell is sick or injured, it cannot operate properly and it loses its charge. You might say its battery runs down.

ML
How does a cell get sick?

CW
Oh, it could be infected with a parasitic microorganism, or cut off from its source of nutrients and blood supply to the point where it is starving. In fact, although "sick" is probably not the proper term for a third situation, a form of starvation is the basic mechanism of cell reproduction. You see, when a normal cell grows bigger and bigger, two things happen: its outer skin or membrane stretches and becomes thinner, and the ratio of volume to surface area increases to the point where it cannot absorb enough nutrients to sustain its bulk. It begins to starve and lose its ability to generate the electrical potential it needs for normal operation.

ML
Hmmm, yes, I think I can see that. Like a fat man on a thin man's diet.

CW
Precisely. And when the membrane voltage, the TMP falls by 80% or 85% to somewhere around 12 to 15 millivolts the starving cell--in a last attempt to survive--divides itself into two "sister" cells. The volume-to-surface ratios are greatly reduced, the membranes become thicker and more functional, nutrient requirements are lowered, the TMP bounces back to normal, and we have two healthy cells in place of one fat starving one.

ML
I think I'm getting a little confused. Now you are talking about a normal process of cell division, but what's that got to do with my case--or the other cases you mentioned?

CW
I'm coming to that. The MPG produces extremely rapid oscillations of a magnetic field that penetrate the body. To make a long story short, and bypass a lot of physics, the effect of these oscillating pulses of magnetic energy is to increase the transmembrane potential of sick or abnormal cells. It's like charging a car battery; if a battery is low, it takes the charge and builds up to its normal voltage, but if it is already fully charged, the battery charger or alternator in the car has no effect.

ML
So what has that got to do with curing AIDS?

CW
Whoa, we don't know that it does cure AIDS. A cure may be a long way off yet.

But, it appears to cure a number of AIDS-related symptoms, opportunistic infections, and thus prolong the life of an AIDS patient in a healthier and more productive state. That's a big step forward. In the case of Kaposi's sarcoma, and many other forms of cancer for that matter, increasing the TMP prevents the cancer cells from dropping to that critical value of around 12 millivolts that triggers cell division. If the cancer cells can't divide, they age and die; the cancer stops growing and starts shrinking.

ML
Oh, I see. Now it is beginning to make sense. But how about the pneumonia and the diarrhea?

CW
Okay, these diseases are caused by single-cell bacteria that have a very fast metabolism. They absorb nutrients from the host environment and reproduce, or divide quickly because they grow so fast. When the magnetic oscillations prevent their TMP from dropping to the critical point, where they would normally divide, they just continue to swell up until they burst and die. We have seen this actually occur through a microscope many times. That's why these particular AIDS-related infections can be cured so quickly--it doesn't take long to kill all of these particular bacterial species.

ML
And the same thing happens with the cancer cells?

CW
Not exactly. We get the same general effect, but it takes longer--that is, a few more MOT treatments. I think what happens here is that when the cancer cells are prevented from reproducing, they die of old age. They don't burst their membranes like the bacteria because their metabolism is much slower and they don't have such a bountiful supply of nutrients as the bacteria.

ML
How about T-cells? Does MOT keep them from reproducing?

CW
Here I'm on shaky ground. I really don't know why MOT produces such a dramatic increase in T-cells. I suspect that T-cells infected with the HIV lose energy and the ability to function normally, and die an early death. If their death rate is greater than their birth rate, so to speak, one could understand why the T-cell count would decline over the years, opening the way for opportunistic infections to take root.

ML
Well, if MOT is so effective in all these cases, why hasn't the public been informed about it?

CW
Several reasons. In the first place, MOT has not yet been approved by the FDA, and is only being used on an experimental basis for a few carefully selected subjects. Secondly, I understand there are only two or three MPG machines in existence, experimental models, and they probably won't go into mass production until FDA approval for general use has been given. Thirdly, if the general public knew about MOT the researchers would be swamped with more AIDS and cancer applicants than they could possibly handle at this time.

ML
How long do you think it will take to get FDA approval?

CW
Not long. I hope it will happen by next June. They are working desperately to come up with the necessary data. Some of the doctors are putting in 14, 16 hour days because they know how important it is. And the engineers are working full time on MPG design, so they can go into mass production as soon as possible. That might take another two or three months, and then there is the training problem--doctors and technicians will have to be trained for hospitals and clinics all over the country. All over the world, for that matter.

ML
Whew! I don't know if I would have lasted that long. I guess I'm awfully lucky to have been chosen as an experimental subject. But I agonize for all those other HIV-positive people out there. Isn't there some way of letting them know that there is new hope for them on the horizon.

CW
I know you do, and I feel the same way. I've agreed to keep the details and location of the research project confidential, but perhaps you and I could get some early information published--just to send a message--hang in there for just a little while longer. Live sensibly and survive; help is coming.

ML
Great idea! Let's do it. Those people saved my life, and I'd like everyone to know about it. When I think of the hope it could bring into so many lives...

INTERVIEW WITH a HIV+ patient R.V.
by Charles Wallach, Ph.D.

CW
For the record, it is 9 July 1993. I understand that you are a female Caucasian, 45 years old, a professional writer in the Los Angeles area, who was diagnosed as HIV+ in 1989, and that you do not know the source of infection.

RV
Yes, that is correct.

CW
What symptoms of AIDS-related complications have you had over the past five years?

RV
None, really. That is, not any of the usual ones, except for an unusually low T-cell count and a sort of chronic fatigue.

CW
No infections or anything like that?

RV
No, nothing that I can thing of.

CW
You are very lucky. But then I guess you know that the immune system is complex, and there are other protective mechanisms operating.

RV
Yes, that's what my doctor told me. He said that the other parts of my immune system seem to be intact, but he is not sure just what is causing the fatigue except that it seems to correspond to my T-cell count .

CW
When did you start the magnetic induction therapy?

RV
In January. About six months ago.

CW
Did your doctor refer you to the research program?

RV
No, my cousin works at the clinic where these machines are being tested and he suggested I try it out. But my doctor knows about it.

CW
How often do you have treatments?

RV
Once or twice a week, depending on how I feel.

CW
Can you tell me, in your own words, the treatment procedure?

RV
Well, I check in and fill out a form each time. They want to know how I feel and if there have been any problems since the last treatment. Then they take my vital signs and put me in the machine. I hold the loop in different places around my chest area, because that is where the T-cells are manufactured. I do this for 40 minutes. They check on me from time to time, and that all there is to it.

CW
What results do you experience?

RV
The only way I can describe it is that I just feel energized. The fatigue seems to melt away.

CW
Does this happen immediately?

RV
Not exactly. Usually I don't feel the surge in energy for several hours, sometimes not until the next morning.

CW
Have you noticed any change in your weight or appetite?

RV
No, my weight is pretty constant at 117 pounds, and my appetite is about the same.

CW
Have you been monitoring your T-cell count?

RV
Oh, yes. When I started I started it was 22, and then it quickly went to 50 and I suppose it is still going up with each treatment.

CW
Did they explain how this treatment works?

RV
Yes,they told me it had something to do with changing the electrical charge on the cells, making the sick cells healthy.

CW
Yes, that's right. And how do you fell now?

RV
I feel very well. That machine really works.

CW
How much are the treatments costing you?

RV
I really don't know. The insurance company pays the bills.

CW
In publishing case histories such as yours, we usually use only the initials of the patient. But I would like to ask if you have any objection to our using your full name?

RV
I think I would prefer just using my initials.

CW
Okay, that's fine. Well, thank you very much. You have been most helpful and it has been a pleasure talking to you.

RV
Thank you. Glad to help. And I would certainly recommend these treatments to anyone else with similar problems.
 
 

INTERVIEW WITH a HIV+ patient B.S.
by Charles Wallach, Ph.D.  

CW
For the record, it is Sunday afternoon, 11 July 1993.

You are a heterosexual male Caucasian, 37 years old, living in West Los Angeles, and you have given me permission in writing to use your name.

BS
That's right.

CW
How long have you known you were HIV-positive?

BS
Well, I tested positive about a year and a half ago. My girl friend, you know, we used drugs and slept together, she tested positive in '87 and I tested after that. I was surprised when I first tested, it was negative, and I didn't test for a couple of years and it tested positive. That was a year and a half ago.

CW
What symptoms have you experienced?

BS
Oh, I had fatigue, thrush, swelling in all my lymph glands, pain, pain in armpits, crotch and all, and another one called hairy leukoplakia which is a sore on the tongue. That cleared up, although they said it would hang around. I cleared that up with beta carotene, carrot juice, honest to God. And I had genital herpes really bad, and the Pappas machine seems to clear that up, it really does. All those are common symptoms with people who have AIDS.

CW
Can you describe in your own words what happens when you go in for a treatment?

BS
Yeah, well, I go in when I feel tired, and my brain gets fuzzy, and then after about 15 or 20 minutes on the machine I just seem to come alive, awake as far as my head is concerned. Like I had a treatment yesterday, and today I feel really great.

CW
Can you describe what they do with you at the clinic?

BS
Yeah, they take my vitals and put me on the machine. The radiation that comes out of the probe comes out for 4 to 6 inches and I place this around on my chest, my armpits and crotch, and if I have herpes sores I put the probe over those. I just move the probe around for 10 or 15 minutes and the machine sounds like a popcorn popper all this time.

CW
Apart from the fatigue and the herpes, do you feel that you have experienced other benefits from the treatment?

BS
Well, let's see, my T-cell count is stabilized. It was dropping, but now it seems to be holding steady at about 450 since I started the treatments. When I first started it was dropping below 500, actually 444, and they offered me AZT at this one clinic and I didn't want to go on that but I knew I had to start doing something. So far it hasn't gone below 440.

CW
That's great! How often do you have it checked?

BS
Oh, I have it done every three months. I'd like to do it more often, but that's all the County will do. I don't have health insurance and that's pretty scary for someone with AIDS, you know.

CW
Where do you go for these tests?

BS
I do it at the Gay and Lesbian Center. Although I'm not gay, they're the closest. I was going to a sister organization on San Vincente, but now they've moved to a new central location on Hollywood Boulevard just recently. I have yet to go there.

CW
How about your weight?

BS
It's funny you should ask about that, because it's gone up. I've always stayed about 134, and now it's up to 155 and I don't know what's doing that, I really don't.

CW
Do you think a change in appetite might have something to do with it?

BS
Well, maybe it is a conscious effort to eat better, I don't know. But I have always eaten pretty good, so I don't know. Maybe it's just the beginning of middle-age spread, my brother tells me. Anyway, it's gone up about 20 pounds.

CW
How have they explained the effects of the magnetic induction treatment to you?

BS
Ah... well, they said it stimulates my cells, makes them more healthy. And they told me what happened with other patients. My friend R.V. told me about it. Her T-cell count was down to about 44, and she had more energy than I did. She's doing it about every week or two, but I am doing it once or twice a week to get rid of the fatigue and fuzziness. Maybe it's psychosomatic, I don't know, but I just seem to need it more often than she does.

CW
How do you feel right now?

BS
Like I said, I had a treatment yesterday and I feel great! As long as I get the treatments twice a week, I don't get fatigued or that fuzzy feeling in my brain.

CW
Do you think that fuzziness is mental or physical?

BS
I have the feeling that it's mental but it is brought on by the physical fatigue, so I guess it's a combination of both.

CW
Well, thank you very much for your input. I think it will hold out some much needed hope for other people with the same condition.

BS
I'd be very pleased if it does.